Will We Ever See One Of The Most ‘Political Sensitive Doc In American History’? | Deadline | MSNBC

today there's new evidence of the growing distrust between the Democrats in the House Judiciary Committee and Donald Trump's Attorney General William bar House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler signaling today the first promise of a redacted version of the Mullah report by mid-april will not cut it now they're announcing that the House Judiciary Committee will vote Wednesday on whether to authorize a subpoena to obtain the full unredacted report from robert muller saying quote attorney demo bar has thus far indicated he will not meet the April 2nd deadline set by myself and 5 other committee chairs and refused to work with us to provide the full report without redactions the AG should reconsider so that we can work together to ensure the maximum transparency of this important report but to both Congress and the American people the full and complete report must be released to Congress without delay House Judiciary will also vote on whether to authorize subpoenas for documents from five former West Wing staffers who may be witnesses in the obstruction investigation that's the one in which Robert Muller refused to exonerate the sitting president a reminder of what those aides may have witnessed when it comes to obstruction of justice former White House Counsel Don began spent at least 30 hours with Robert Miller's investigators and witnessed the firing of Jim Comey the attempted firing of Bob Muller and the effort to get Jeff sessions to Unruh cues Andy Donaldson McGann's former chief of staff who according to the New York Times turned over exhaustive notes which detailed in real-time mr. Trump's behavior in the West Wing ho Peck she testified that sometimes she told white lies for Donald Trump Reince Priebus for chiefs of staff ago was there when Comey was fired and when Trump attempted to fire Muller and force sessions to resign and Steve Bannon while he was in the West Wing during all these early incidents known to be under investigation in the obstruction probe nethers moves come as the latest polls show most Americans don't think that Trump is in the clear when it comes to Russia an expert stressed that Trump still faces grave legal peril in terms of the yet unseen obstruction section of the mullah report Walter Dellinger former assistant AG and head of the office of legal counsel under Clinton writes in the Washington Post this weekend quote the most damaging aspect of the report would be a thorough account of Trump's efforts to obstruct justice the known facts are all bad enough the report probably contains others bars letter says that Muller included facts quote on both sides of the obstruction question that statement does not rule out the possibility that the facts are strongly on the side of guilt and that is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and Friends Chuck Rosenberg former US attorney who worked on the staffs of both Robert Muller and James Comey at the FBI and is now an MSNBC contributor Aaron Blake senior political reporter for The Washington Post also with the post national political reporter and MSNBC political analyst Robert Costa an on-set is NBC News national political reporter Heidi Prez Bella Robert Costa I have to start with you because you have been signaling for days now at least 10 on this show and others and your own that the concern before during and after news that Muller had completed his report from the president's inner circle from Republicans on Capitol Hill was always precisely what mr. Dellinger writes about the actual litany of conduct described in an obstruction report that's exactly right Robert Muller's mandate was narrow it was to investigate interference in the 2016 campaign by the Russians and also to evaluate the president's conduct and to see if it was worthy of prosecution Congress's mandate is wide and now we see the House Democrats turning to obstruction it's important that they're bringing members of the White House Counsel to Capitol Hill issuing subpoenas because that means they want to delve further into what exactly the President did regardless of what mr. mutlar put in his report now it's Congress's turn to decide what how far they can get into figuring out a map of the president's behavior Aaron Blake a close observer of Washington in this White House said that if Robert Muller had spent 22 months trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump had conspired with his own cabinet he may have come up short there too but on in terms of presenting in some sort of narrative form evidence of an effort to obstruct the investigation that that's going to look it's going to be easy to understand everybody will be able to understand what that conduct is and it will in some ways reignite the debate about whether or not a crime was committed in the court of public opinion you know there's been this narrative out here that attorney general barb I you know pulling out a few sentence fragments from Muller report and putting them in that letter last week it was doing the president some kind of huge favor he was you know setting the bar for where this was going to be weeks before the report would actually be come out and then we would have a narrative set in stone by the time we actually get to see the report to the extent we actually do get to see the report I think things actually tend to work in the opposite direction you know the fact that we have the president out here now talking about a full exoneration about how this is a major coup in his favor really sets the expectation rather high for what we ultimately see here and so to the extent that this report ultimately does Peru does show lots of evidence a potential obstruction of justice that may not have ultimately added up to the threshold that Robert Muller had in his mind when he wrote it you know to the extent that that changes the storyline it's been set by this administration by the White House and to the extent that they've actually been praising Robert Mahler I think that could really do a lot to to highlight some of the findings that we do see in the Muller report and so you know there was a lot of confidence from the White House confidence is completely warranted but we're gonna find out the next couple of weeks here Heidi Congress narrowing their scope in a way that may prove strategically and substantively wise around this obstruction question it's a question that robert muller was asked to investigate he spent 22 months investigating whether or not Donald Trump obstructed justice at the end we don't know why he neither described the obstructive conduct as criminal but neither he put in the report that he his investigation does not exonerate Donald Trump of obstruction it seems that Congress has an opportunity to say we'll give us the evidence we'll see if we can arrive at a conclusion well that is in fact what they believe may have been molars intent all along Nicole this is one of the many questions that they pose that is unanswered by bar which is was that information handed over without a conclusion by Muller because it was his intent just like Leon Jaworski did during Watergate to hand that over to the Congress that it is their prerogative to draw that conclusion but to the extent that we described this as narrowing yes but the Democrats believe that in examining this obstruction issue they're also going to highlight broader issues of wrongdoing that fall short of criminal conspiracy for instance how many other contacts were there Nicole between the Trump campaign and the Russians that were then not reported to the FBI what other business deals were in how many times was Trump Tower Moscow discussed was it discussed at all and that goes to the heart of whether that the president was and maybe is still compromised if there was a financial dimension to this and then finally whether the president then at the end of the help from Russia which okay he did not conspire criminally with the Russian government but at the end of it was there a reward for the reebok were the Russians in the form of sanctions that the president tried to lift at the very beginning of his presidency Chuck Rosenberg I want to slow this down a little bit and talk to you about what Muller was thinking when he came to the end of his obstruction of justice investigation packed up his briefcase in my imagination he donned his Superman cape walked over to Maine DOJ laid it out in front of Bar Rosenstein and whomever else was in the room and said so here's what I got on conspiracy criminal conspiracy to conspire with Russia we didn't we weren't able to establish that now obstruction guys you know get out of pop and some chips because this is a more difficult conclusion we didn't reach one we do not recommend prosecution but nor do we recognize honor eight him and and nor do we arrive at the conclusion that he can't or shouldn't be what happened next do you think yeah first of all Nicole if he donned his Superman cape you probably flew over the main justice but putting mode of transportation aside you know it's never taken me 400 pages to say nothing happened and so I imagine something happened and that's something particularly with respect to obstruction was quite serious but I have a theory I think it's plausible as to why mauler didn't recommend prosecution or declination on the obstruction it goes as follows the Department of Justice has in place policies one dates to the 70s one to two thousand that say to charge a sitting president would be overly burdensome it would stigmatize the presidency and so we just don't charge sitting presidents with that in mind even if the obstruction constituted a crime and it may well have we don't know that yet I could imagine Muller not making a recommendation because of recommendation to prosecute someone you can't prosecute is equally burdensome and equally stigmatizing and so on look just exonerate why not why not what's the word why not a recommendation a declination decision why not because the facts simply don't support it what are the facts that the conduct is what I don't believe for a minute that if Muller had facts that exonerated the President on obstruction he would have hesitated to say so could possibly make up evidence on both sides because I have a theory that there is no evidence on the other side of the obstruction question there's evidence that he obstructed justice there's case law on the other side what you just articulated there's law that says you can't indict a sitting president there's a wide interpretation that Bar boasts about that article too gives a president the authority to whatever he wants including firing a sitting FBI director and that's not a secret that's in a memo he wrote and circulated so they're do you think there's evidence on the other side of the obstruction question there may not be a lot of evidence on the other side the things you just articulated Nicole for somebody who believes in a robust theory of presidential authority under article 2 of the Constitution firings recusal z' pardons all fit under that theory and so it could well be that there's something on the other side which would suggest that a president can't be charged with an obstruction of justice but I imagine the facts many of which we have seen weigh heavily in favor of a prosecution but for the fact that you can charge a sitting president I'm anxious to read the report because I imagine we're going to see a lot of stuff we knew and a lot of stuff that we don't know that compels a prosecution let me ask you two more questions on why Muller would have arrived at this conclusion so you're Robert Muller you're plugging away Matt Whitaker takes over the department and you maybe get to the point your investigation where Rudy Giuliani or whomever you're dealing with says I'll give you some written answers to collusion questions but not obstruction questions you just have to answer the question not just did he obstruct a lot of that happen in full view but whether he had the intent to obstruct and you decide you need to interview the president but what you need a subpoena to do that I mean who's going to give that to you Matt Whittaker or the guy who said this Muller should not be permitted to demand that the president submit to interrogation about alleged ins obstruction that was built bars position he was nominated and confirmed while Muller was still on the job yeah you know so that's troubling to me I imagine that if Muller really thought he needed the subpoena and bar stood in the way that's something we would find out but there's also another theory here to Nicole it goes as follows federal prosecutors under Justice Department guidelines and rules are not allowed to issue a subpoena to somebody who has told them through an attorney that they're going to invoke their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination now remember the president only answered written questions about the first part of the Moller inquiry the collusion and conspiracy piece as far as we know he did not answer questions about obstruction of justice yes and it's an F if Trump's lawyers told Mahler that he would not answer questions if subpoenaed on that issue on obstruction of justice because he has a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination then Mahler would be prohibited under policy from issuing a subpoena that would make him invoke that right in front of a grand jury so check in your judgment legal and political was Robert Muller able to determine whether or not the president had the intent to obstruct justice if the president were any other person on the planet there's no question in my mind that the Muller team could make that to determination and would have made that recommendation that's the legal and factual part of it the policy piece that you can charge a sitting president probably I'm sorry definitely precludes charging him and probably precludes making a recommendation to charge him so my question for you Robert Costa is why do build bar Sully himself with the politics of all this if he could have done what Chuck Rosenberg just explained he could have hung the conclusion of the Muller investigation into obstruction on those two things on article 2 Authority and on department policy not to indict it it seems that he stepped into Washington's political set school if you will we've got a president who said what he wanted in an Ag was my wrote Roy Cohn he he you know he's complained for two years about Jeff Sessions for accusing he wanted a Roy Cohn so I'm going to protect him he said he admired Eric Holder because he in his mind protected Obama did did bar step in to the Roy Cohn trap wittingly or unwittingly as a reporter it's hard to come to a conclusion about the Attorney General's conduct so far until we see the full mullah report and we understand how he is actually handling this report and what he intends to release to Congress at this point Congress is demanding more information many people in the country want to see this full report the Attorney General is navigating issues of executive privilege and everything else he laid out in his letter so it's hard to totally see the full picture with the Attorney General at this moment but if Congress feels like the Attorney General is not going far enough to release information then bar the Attorney General could be susceptible to criticism that he's in some way protecting either President Trump or the institution of the presidency on legal grounds and then you could see him become even more of a political target but for now he's been quite quiet we're only based basing our conclusions on what he's written out and Robert Costa been witness friend of friend of this show and someone we've all watched closely over the last years makes exactly that point bill Barr has promised transparency he deserves the chance to deliver but I wonder if I could just put up this list of witnesses that the House Judiciary Committee has subpoena these are all individuals that you cover closely from your perch Tom McGann Steve ban and hope Hicks Reince Priebus any Donaldson these are all people who witnessed the conduct we've been talking about since the top of the show this does seem like whatever bar releases if Congress gets there back up that it hasn't been sufficient they may very well call these witnesses and reinvestigate the obstruction case don't you think Congress wants to investigate the obstruction case they are going to face some challenges because as Don Magan the former White House Counsel he's sitting at home in Virginia now he's not in part of the West Wing but if he's called to Capitol Hill it's not like he's just going to sit there and start opening his veins and recalling every anecdote he could be citing executive privilege based on his own private conversations with the president you could see Emmett flood at the White House one of the White House counsel's now and Pat Cipollone II start to say mr. bannon mr. McGann mr. Priebus they can't detail this or that because of executive privilege so Congress will probably be able to make some progress on the obstruction front and picking some new facts from these testimonies at the same time they too will have some obstacles Erin Blake I want to play you something that Walter Dellinger the aforementioned former associate attorney general said on Morning Joe this morning I believe if they can go directly to the trial judge who presides over that grand jury and ask the trial judge to release to Congress grand jury information that is redacted from the report I'm ignorant enough to be dangerous with legal analysis like that but the point being Democrats have a lot of tools in their toolbox they do and I thought that Nelson Cunningham who I would add who has been out front questioning whether you know we would actually see them all report one day he flagged this early last year and now we're all having this conversation now he had a piece in Politico today where he laid out the precedent that existed during Watergate under which basically Congress was able to get the roadmap from Jaworski it was not released publicly of course until just recently you know I think there could be a difference ultimately between what Congress ease and what the public sees here that's something that makes a lot of sense as far as some of the rules that are involved here as far as public disclosure goes there are actually very valid reasons why we may not get a fully unredacted report because of people who need to be protected who are not being charged with crimes here you know certainly the Judiciary Committee is being very forceful in subpoenaing this right now getting out ahead of even the redacted report I think that they're trying to set a tone and make William Barr meet them in the middle somewhere and maybe that middle point at some juncture down the road here is going to be that Congress gets that full report even if it's not released publicly let me read heidi some of the the piece the Aaron's talking about there from Politico congressional Democrats are right to demand the full report but they're wrong to ask the AG to violate the law instead they should talking about an unredacted version instead they should learn from the version without the grand jury testimony removed instead they should learn from the lessons of Watergate that should demand the full report but only for their own use they should use it as a roadmap for their own investigation and they should not wait it seems that they have a moment they have they have the wind at their back they have public opinion with them outside the Trump base nobody believes the president has been cleared even on the Russia question and they have this sort of high ground of in the days leading up to the Muller reports conclusion Democrats and Republicans voted unanimously for the full release of the Miller report I don't think that they are demanding that the entirety of the report be released to the public they're just demanding that it be beta to them and that is where they're drawing the distinction and why you're seeing this subpoena canon which is how it was described to me by an aide because number one Congress is fully capable of doing those classified redactions itself and in fact members of Congress argue this is a report that the American public paid for and we as their representatives view classified information all the time we're perfectly capable of protecting that and yet bars making these reductions number two on the grand jury point I mean every classified intelligence program is briefed to Congress at every juncture right and that's why you you forgot what the word was Pelosi used but she thought it was you know hubris of him essentially I'd be doing this for them but secondly the grand jury material Jerry Nadler who's the chairman of the Judiciary Committee told us all that he asked Barr will you please do like Jaworski did and come with me and submit to the court that we can get this information it's a formality and he would not make that commitment and so that is why you're seeing this action being taken today with the subpoena threat because to Aaron's point yes they want to try and force him to be as transparent as possible this is one of the most politically sensitive documents in our history Nichole and the question is is Barr going to tell us as much as he can or as little as he can hey there I'm Chris Hayes from MSNBC thanks for watching MSNBC on YouTube if you want to keep up to date with the videos we're putting out you can click Subscribe just below me or click over on this list to see lots of other great videos

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. How can their be obstruction if there is no crime! TDS IS REAL! It is a block, to stop justice! No crime/info to block anyone from exposing! Madness!

  2. Sad that there are 400 comments from folks still believing this bs! Msnbc lying again, stringing folks along!

  3. William Barr is Dotard tRump's new caddy. Having found the ball Donnie hit into the water, in the middle of the fairway.

  4. Based on current events, w/#TeamMueller coming forward & stating tht Barr's (albeit, false) summary misrepresented #TheMuellerReport, aka #TheMuellerProbe…..I am willing to bet #SCMueller #TeamMueller & FBI didn't make such a recommendation. I bet Barr lied to U.S. when he retold in his (false) report regarding what #SCMueller #TeamMueller & FBI supposedly stated in #TheMuellerReport.

    Understand? #BarrLIED

  5. It's so sad that there are Americans stupid enough to believe the propaganda spewed on MSNBC and CNN. Fake news is doing so much damage to this country. These people (media and Democrats) just look you in the eye and lie. People need to wake up before we completely lose our country. They loved Mueller, but now that he didn't give them the prize they wanted, they say he's not trustworthy. These people are sick.

  6. The fact of the matter is that the Dems have no platform to run on in the next
    Elections, other than extreme left thinking which equals extreme socialism and some anti semites.
    There goal is simply to bring this president down by continuing their narrative about collusion
    And obstruction. For without that, what else do they have to offer.

  7. APRIL 3, 2019 Key Democrats just requested years of Trump Tax Returns from the IRS!!! Can't wait!!!

  8. So let me understand this…IF the President is a criminal he can’t be prosecuted. AND he gets a lawyer paid for by the people of the United States, the Attorney General, to suppress information and investigations? What type of system is this??!!

  9. Subpeona Mueller and ask him what he thought barr would do with the report. Did he think it'd go to Congress? That's literally the only question they need to ask.

  10. Why have a VP if he's not meant for something like the president getting indicted? That's just "unable to do his duties". It's also a national security risk to have someone so "stressed" in charge of this country looking out for only himself and NOT the country. Why? Why have a VP? It's a waste of money.

  11. We DON'T know what the report says. We only have barr's memo which is cherry-picked. Mueller wouldn't be the one to decide what to do with the president (nor the DoJ). It's up to Congress. Their job is to investigate the president and oversee him so ALL of the report (regarding obstruction) and the evidence should go to the proper committees.

  12. AMERICANS has been mentally abused by Treasonous Trumpinnocchio and our Russian NRA Senate's political systems for over the past two years, now isn't it obvious that they cannot afford to become furher exposed bystanders themselves for lying to the American public.⁉️✍🤣👌

  13. It appears attorneys are expected (perhaps willing) to abandon all common sense in order to support the notion that a sitting president cannot be guilty of obstruction & cannot be indicted. These ideas are antithetical to the ideals set forth by the Founding Fathers, who were vehemently opposed to our government resembling a monarchy in any way & who went to great lengths to protect our country from an all-powerful oppressor

  14. Of course we're being conned by Barr and the republicans. We live in the age of Trump.

  15. One thing may be overlooked, which is that Donald Trump is lucky. Napoleon chose his generals on that criterion. The handlers behind Trump may have done so, too. Therefore, the chances that Donald Trump will be held accountable for his criminal and for his obstructive behaviour is zero if one takes into account the 38% of iron support among voters, translating into 51% at the ballot box, the cowed and the corrupt among the Republican Senators, the strategically placing of judges and senior officers in the judicial areas like Dept of Justice and the SCotUS.

  16. The civilised world looks on stunned by the corruption in the USA. It is like watching a dictatorship or a third world country.

  17. I am sure we don't know anything about what Muller said it is being filtered by Bar. I believe that Muller is saying nothing because he does not want to perjure himself.

  18. There is no getting away from this if trump becomes president again it will be continue and become very embarrassing he will be handcuffed and perp walked from the white house.


    Donald Trump has had he privilege of covering up proof of scandals all of his life. If America allows him to do this as President by covering up the Mueller Report, then this country is a fake as well and that spells victory for Vladmir Putin. We can then legitimately call this a conspiracy and over reach and to ruin our democracy. AMERICA MUST SEE THE FULL REPORT! ~ KEEP ON VOTING BLUE

  20. "Will we ever see…"? When did we start asking that? I guess it's over. Might as well start the hashtag barrage because that will show them. The entertainment is not worth the price.

  21. If Barr releases the report "it wouldn't bother me" says Trump. That is a direct quote to a question about whether he thought the report should be released. So, what's the sudden problem? Just what is in the report that bothers you, Mr. Trump?

  22. Using Article II, as an excuse, is beyond perverse in this case.

    The argument that a sitting president cannot obstruct justice simply because he has the authority to fire those of the justice department is like saying a mother cannot murder her child because she gave birth to the child. 😑

  23. APAC is a greater terrorist danger to the Whitehouse Congress and the American people under Christ than all the Muslims in the world ! Or in America not ruling them out as a terrorist danger ! Israel is the great American mistake !

  24. I pray that some very patriotic hero leaks the complete Mueller report. God bless that person in advance.

  25. The only way we are going to see the full report is if every Republican and Independent Politician is out of office!!!! Vote them all out let's see the full report with no redactions and with all evidence because we paid for it we have the right!!!

  26. I read today that the WH WILL get to see the report before us. Congress is weak. I have grave concerns here. The SCOTUS is also scary.

  27. If trump is such a dolt, where does he get this fine tuning of the laws? He's leaning on, say, Steven Miller? Such detail of the laws makes me go Hmmmm.

  28. Chuck Rosenberg, If a sitting president kills someone in the Oval Office does the Justice Dept still say that that president cannot be prosecuted?

  29. It should be Robert Mueller who redacts the report because he knows what he meant and he will be called on to defend parts of the report and he cannot defend someone else's opinions. This is unfair to Robert Mueller and to Congress and to the American people. It is time for the Congress and the Justice Dept to listen to the ones who pay their salaries and benefits. One thing that is correct is that many of the president's crimes have been committed in plain sight and therefore we, the public are qualified to evaluate it.

  30. Can you see what's going on here?..There is, 'something' in that report that is very damaging to Trump! There is obvious determination that Congress will not get to see it!..It will be redacted totally by Barr, or sealed under executive privelige!..The whole thing is degenerating into a farce!..There is clearly something in that report that is not good for Trump, and Barr seems to be desperate that nobody's ever going to know what it is! That is now becoming rather obvious!..Oh, but we do live in "Interesting times!"..

Related Post