Politics in Cyberpunk 2077 but NOT The Outer Worlds? | Paradox Defends Divisive DLC Policy & More



keep politics out of our video games is a sentiment shared by many gamers across many genres but is it actually possible to keep politics out of all video games and what exactly to people mean when they say politics there are constant cries from gamers of agenda pushing from both ends of the political spectrum Leonard Boyarsky co-director of the outer worlds says that his game will be political but not politically charged now that sounds like a bit of a paradox but bear with me he seems to be suggesting that the game will have political themes and subject matter but the game won't force the correct ideology on players speaking with VGC Borowski says i don't want people to think that this is a really hard politically charged game it's supposed to be fun it's supposed to be humorous we don't want to set up straw man or anything and say look how horrible this is it's really about looking at all aspects of issues the last thing we want to do is make a game that people feel is lecturing them this does feel fairly contradictory especially considering the heavy satire of capitalism and anti corporate sentiments both of which are political ideas however it seems like the point he's trying to make is that the game is going to show you a variety of political concepts and it's up to you as a player to decide which you align with there are people in this game who have philosophies that I don't agree with and I take pains to make those people very likeable very sensible and very believable then there are people in the game who say things I agree with who are perhaps not very nice to hang out with while Boyarsky is reluctant to make it over political statements Mike pon Smith the creator of the cyberpunk universe says everything is political including cyberpunk 2077 everything is political human beings are political first we got food then we got prostitution then we got politics and we might have gotten politics before prostitution but I'm not sure basically it's all political but a big part of what cyberpunk talks about is the disparities of power and how technology redress is that serve a punk as a sub-genre is a particularly political area fiction so it's no surprise that the game will be overtly political pon Smith continued highlighting how themes of power will be important in cyberpunk 2077 a lot of 2077 is about that push between people who want to gain power from the corporation's and their groups and the people who had a taste of their own freedom and are not going to go along with this boy ASCII said the outer worlds story will be similar to obsidians 2001 RPG Arcanum of Steamworks and magic obscura and how handled its racial issues the story always comes down to the balance of power and how people get power and how they use it we've been very careful I've been very careful these two things sound very similar but one is meant to be political while the other one isn't it seems like the distinction between the outer worlds and cyberpunk 2077 is that one is satire while the other is a critique Brasky said the story is not a critique of modern capitalism and is more about power and how power is used against people who don't have it upon Smith on the other hand said I tell people Saba Punk is a warning not hey this is going to be great in a different interview with VGC pon Smith said there should be that moment of discomfort when thinking about what your character has become after multiple cybernetic augmentations we found a sweet spot with cyberpunk which is we make you think but we don't bog you down and give you an education so basically it comes down to Wow isn't it funny how fucked up the universe is versus wow isn't it terrifying how fucked up the universe is I feel like some point is going to be more over in saying okay here's a horrible dystopia you're meant to think this is bad you're not meant to like it we're going to show you bad things and you're meant to say no stop the bad things the outworlds is gonna be a bit more satirical be like here's a bunch of bad things but it's funny so it's not all doom and gloom it's not too terrible but it's pretty bad yeah and this is a conversation that games journalists always push this agenda especially on Ubisoft games cuz Ubisoft her how its criticized for not not being political on not China send a message which for my money I think it's a waste of energy I'm gonna end the day this is a game this is a hobby you don't do it to get all serious about stuff games journalists might want anyone to be serious might want to save the world in their own little way forgot to say let me just play a game and get on with it right I mean it might might be very difficult to not have any soft politics in the game and what people don't like in games is when a game is trying to lecture you a game is trying to tell you how to think accept gamers giving you a judgement on what is good and what is bad nobody wants that shit nobody wants to be lectured and I think both of these games are going to be like that the outer worlds is more like a sandbox type of a game where you can choose to ally with whoever you want the bodies are the goodies or you know who's supposed to be the baddies you could you know you know you could be the body you could be affiliate with the goodies it's such a goody-goody but it's unlike a four-year-old kid daddy the goodies SP the goodies and cyberpunk is is gonna be a little a little bit more gritty but still not gonna lecture you like Mike Ponce missus I'm happy with both those types of games I'm happy with the way you buy soft does it I'm happy with you know this there's no lecturing is no political charge whatsoever there's always going to be politics political themes in games you can't distinguish that it's humanity that's what humanity does right it deals with political things but it's not always politically charged and there are always trying to sell you things and journalists for God's sake stop trying to force any sort of agenda into games this is bullshit and you shouldn't do it because you just like what was it I don't know you're not gonna save the world just let it be so you can include themes of politics in the stuff and swipe while the reasons Star Wars is so successful I've written the original trilogy because they had loads of politics in that the Empire it they're literally a political party it's literally what they are and you just they're the heroes stop them but when the new ones come out it's way more over and there's social politics and that sort of thing is what people get upset with because it's that's when it feels a gender pushing yeah but please make sure to let us know what you think down in the comments do you think either of theme these games are actually political do you think they should be political should games always be political like Ubisoft games let us know now it's time for some news nuggets the Call of Duty franchise is often criticized for not innovating enough between its yearly installments well quit your complaining you entitled bunch of toxic balanced reloading while aiming down the sights is the brand new feature coming to call of duty modern warfare this year and yes that's call of duty modern warfare not to be confused with call of duty 4 modern warfare or call of duty modern warfare 2 if only they could innovate with a clearer naming system toxic bellend I think you you might wanna go and get that checked out Yeah right Spider Man ps4 is one of Sony's best selling games ever and developer insomniac games has done a great job supporting it post launch to coincide with the release of spider-man far from home the two new suits from the movie have been added into the game as free DLC updates you can out on the tactical black stealth suit as well as the new black and red upgraded suit which is now my personal favorite spider-man outfit altogether go see the movie it's spectacular for tonight's latest crossover event comes with stranger things themed goodies players will be able to unlock hopper and demo Gorgon themed skins and vine weapon wraps but there are no new game modes this time the critically acclaimed and quite frankly excellent 80s sci-fi show kicked off its third series yesterday on Netflix the long rumored Nintendo switch mini may have just had another leak this one comes from a tweet which shows an image of a silicon cover for the mini switch – despite being the mini version the leaked image seems to depict a larger screen something which switch users have been asking for since the original launched back in 2017 people can fly the studio behind the criminally underappreciated Bulletstorm are keen on the idea of doing a sequel CEO Sebastian what she achieves key said we want this IP to of its second life we're still not sure what that means but obviously since it's our IP we own the IP and the IP is known and has its funds we would like to do something about it they don't have any immediate plans for the franchise while they work on their new IP outriders with Square Enix but if you want more Bulletstorm it's coming to the switch at the end of August the original overcooks game is now free to claim on the epic game store the fun multiplayer cooking sim from ghost town games which was released in 2016 is now available for free until next week if that game isn't quite to your taste next week the game torchlight will be taking over as epic game stores free game grab them while they're hot button food plan you're welcome read the redemption – has been rumored to be coming to the PC for a long while with 1x Rockstar employee listing the pc version on their LinkedIn profile and if that wasn't concrete evidence enough now we may have even more solid evidence that a PC port is in the pipeline with this nugget posted to Twitter yesterday user Jaco maka found mention of the PC version in the social club source code and it reads as follows RDR to underscore PC underscore accomplishments PC port confirmed going back to cyberpunk again mike pond smith has raised everyone's hopes for a potential cyberpunk movie speaking with VGC at e3 he said with Keanu Reeves being tied up in things its come much more of a possibility he also mentioned a cyberpunk film wouldn't be as cerebral as something like Blade Runner but it wouldn't be totally action either and while we're on the subject speaking to GameSpot a CD PR representative has clarified that the company isn't actually working on three sample Punk projects as previously reported city PR apparently have two teams on cyberpunk one team on R&D one team on Gwen's and one team on a mystery mobile game the misunderstanding apparently was caused by a bad Google Translation so that's it via news nuggets if you want to follow up on any of those stories we've just covered as well as the two bigger ones head on down to the description below now shall we have a bad dad joke let's do it so these bad dad's jokes come from our bad dad jokes channel on discord we should get access to if you become a patreon over at patreon.com forward slash pretty good gaming and you also get early access to our podcast at the end of today but if not you'll have to wait until Sunday ok this might be a little bit touchy since it's still fresh but frozen monkey delivers today's joke so brace yourselves if you don't have a sense of humor probably skip this bit the police have identified the body of the 24 year old man who fell from a plane over London he's been named as I'm in a flower bed his friends have described him as a very nice bloke very down-to-earth it was actually a genuine good joke but like I said if you're susceptible to be offended by jokes you probably should have heard that anyway let's move on it was funny if you look on the steam store page of any Paradox Interactive grand strategy game you'll likely be met with a long list of micro transaction purchase options for example you roper Universalis for a game which was released in 2013 has 32 bits of DLC listed on the steam store page if you include the base game the full EU for experience will set you back a whopping 215 pounds 29 pence and that's just a single example on the one hand many players feel that this is an extortioner way of treating your player base about chopping up content like this into dozens of micro transaction payments isn't fair players should be treated with respect and not milked for every tiny piece of content on the other hand some people feel that this is actually a fair way to fund the continued production of additional content in the game means after all developers need to get paid for their time well yesterday former CEO of paradox and current executive chairman of the board Federer questa jumped to defend the company's monetization practices in a series of tweets our DLC model is based on the idea that you pay for new content after the full game release this helps to finance the further development of the game which is of gain for all players every time we release a DLC we also release a big update for free which means that you get continuous upgrades of your game even if you choose not to buy any DLC this would not be possible to fund otherwise I know this is not a flawless model and that a lot of new players get intimidated by seeing a game with hundreds of dollars in DLC however we also run deep discounts on our games and DLCs regularly I feel I really want everything but I don't think it's worth the price like with all business if you don't think it's worth it don't buy it paradox should not be an exception and now for the grand finale I am personally in favor of DLCs that are purely enhancements of graphics skins flags etc why they have no gameplay effect pay to win doesn't lockout functions and helps fund the game and make it better incidentally it was just recently that Wester himself described steams 70/30 revenue split policy as outrageous many people probably think the same about paradoxes DLC policy truth is that there are many models for monetizing post-release content in games not all of them require additional purchases whatsoever for example Sony have employed the 100% free model so far in their recently released and constantly updated days gone also no my sky has been constantly updated for years post-launch free of charge to the point where the game is now a universe away from where it was when it launched others will charge you for each and every additional piece of new content but parent looks is way is sort of a middle ground charger for the most of the stuff but deliver some of it for free who is Right who is wrong our players being fleeced or is this fair monetization I've purposefully left my own opinion out of this segment so that maybe you can let us know what you think down in the comments there's one way that they could fix this and stop people talking about paradoxes DLC practices it's just taking all those market transactions out of the steam store just putting them in the game itself an in-game store so that you know P it's out of sight out of mind people won't complain about it I'm sure a lot of games do that that's one way to fix it so that you know you don't get in imitated by the hordes and hordes like dozens dozens of micro chariots it's just it just flooded floats the whole page and it just puts you off wanting bagging because you know you're gonna have to pay over to Japan for the whole thing I think this sort of thing comes down to how good value the core thing is and obviously that varies between person to person if you play a five-hour game and it's the best thing in the world that's great value too because you've had like a good connection with it if you put a hundred hour game but it was crap it's no value so it's a really personal distinction that I don't think anyone can just decide no this is yeah this is you know arbitrarily bad one thing with one of the main defenses of these grand strategy games as in you get valley free money from the core game like you could play the core game for over a couple of hundred hours maybe because it's sandbox games that you could just put looks at loads and loads of time into so that is probably worth your money in this case whereas other types of goes other genres of games might you might not think so but I can't help but think he's been a little bit hypocritical calling steams monetization or their policy outrageous whereas he's defending yeah yeah we like DLC the Aussies fine we make loads of money off it it's like it doesn't ever consider that I mean this is the main point why I don't like this and like a bit sooner I've been pretty neutral right but I hate it because what it does is it assigns them to release a bare-bones core game to begin with not go to go not go into depth with the game just so that they can get that get out the door early charge money for it and then just plan to make more money or additional money over time that you've got to pay for rather than taking an extra year or two to develop the game as a full complete you know thing that you don't need any additional things on top of thus value for money in the first place they decide to do it this way an and in this kind of model incentivizes that type of approach which I hate I hate feeling like things were stripped out of my game and that sold back to me out of the later date this is how you left feeling with this type of model and like over 200 pounds for that for the full experience now count me out of that especially when there's so many who can do it for free and they still manage to stay afloat I know my sky the reason I put that Noma sky example in there it's because they make more money there's money but more people buying the game to see what was changed in the game they've got no microtransactions in that game they've charged nothing for the updates they've had a huge update recently which completely changed the game took it from first person to third person made the entirely different type of game they're adding multiplayer this year there are VR all sorts of stuff absolutely free in pickup for 20 quid now and they continue to make loads and loads of money why can't they do if it works for them why couldn't it work maybe it's because they don't sell as much because it's a more of a niche market I don't know total war three kingdoms tended to do seem to do really well this year when it launched it sold millions and it was the best played game on Steam so don't tell me that grand strategy games are a niche market don't sell as many because three kingdoms was proving you wrong anyway that's just what we feel any view on thoughts living down in the comments below if we've left any information out if we're just stupid and just don't get it let us know why don't you if you enjoyed the content want to support the channel one I hit the thumbs up button why not leave a comment why not hit subscribe why not even hit the bell and if you're a super super super fun and you really really really enjoyed it you can head over to page intercom forward slash pretty good gaming and from as little as one dollar per month you can support us bring you this content incidentally on this week's podcast we do discuss fella Questor and his thoughts on the 70/30 split and we go into that in depth you got a little access to that right now if you're a page remember otherwise you're gonna have to wait until Sunday also you can get access to the patron discord as a patreon member and you get to chat with us and read their awesome bad dad jokes so that's it for today's episode we will see you again next time until then bye for now and I didn't say pond smooth once on smooth or ponds mouth Fonzworth pills mouth CEO sebastian Warshofsky worse a Chomsky worse eh aus key word she was was she a Chomsky would she have ski what's what she had chav ski was she has chav ski for them

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. Honestly I couldn't care about politics. A good story with good mechanics and that's all I need. Will I likely pick the "goodies"…… Yes cause I can't bring myself to kill npc 😅.

  2. I'm sorry, but I think your remark about games and how they should not lecture us (which sounded generic, not just politics) is a bit silly. I get that sometimes you just want to relax, in that case, you pick a simple brainless game. Games should be well written, smart, complex and enjoyable (like many of the games we know you guys like). Brilliant games should be exactly like brilliant books or movies: always teaching us something about our self or the world around us – while being amazingly entertaining -. So I say let them create an immensely complex political universe; that's just a sign of intelligence on their part

  3. Both of these videos games are just fun first person shooters. The story is just a context for you to shoot people and be a badass.

  4. Is it me or does the cyberpunk (creator of the board game pomsmith) look like a video game rendering?

  5. I've never voted because I've always known that a powerful elite controls both parties…so why do you vote? Donald Trump's real estate empire was bailed out by big banks. Their lawyer said on national TV "He was worth more to us alive then dead"…and yet people continue to think that a wealthy man is running the United States. lol

  6. I think it's necessary to mention that in EU4 the host's DLC becomes fully accessible to everyone else participating in multi-player. So only the host would need the DLC and everyone else would only have to pay for the base game. However this does upset the balance because you'll have a seasoned veteran familiar with all the mechanics capable of accessing them at a whim while the players possessing only the base game will have a much blander and simpler experience when playing single player. Seems like a covert form of P2W to me.

  7. Not offended but not funny. The man died just because he had wanted a better life for him. It is sad.

  8. Every game developer or creative content creator should be able to decide if and how they implement political aspects in their games. For that matter, game journalists should be able to decide if and how they criticize said politics in videogames. Consumers can decide for themselves if they do or don't appreciate said politics in their videogames. Every individual has different opinions and at the end of the day opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.

  9. Paradox "fanboy" here.

    I personally enjoyed the base game of CK2 and EU4(have little respect with the others as a base game so will be speaking mainly in relation to these) and while slightly clunky they felt complete at release.
    A large part in why people might feel like stuff has been taken out of the game, is actually because of free patches that has changed the game greatly, but were created 'as a whole' with the accompanying DLC making it a double edged sword.

    I bought most DLC for EU4 at release and would do so again because each leads to 100s of hours of slightly new and interesting gameplay, adaption and new min-maxing of your play style and keeping it evolving is definitely part of why I keep coming back.

    I do wish they'd add DLC that had reached a specific age to the base game for new people to not feel so far behind, because it is daunting to open the store and see such a high cost for "the full experience" and I want more people to find and love these games so the genre can grow, but fully understand people's hesitation.
    They do frequently have sales, and the graphical packs are a fair bit of the overall price, so you can get hands on it for much less if you strike at the right time, but it will still be a lot of money especially if you are unsure you'll like it.

    I do think your comparisons are a bit weak though as Total War series is very different, has a more expensive base game cost, come out more frequently and do charge for stuff like new playable nations(which CK2 does too in fairness).
    While No Man's Sky didn't release what it promised back in the days and would probably make the company suffer greatly in future had it just been left in its release state or charging money for promised features.
    A three month old game is also a poor comparison in regards to Days Gone.

    Paradox definitely could do better, and imo should for instance with ancient DLCs being free with the base game, but I don't feel like it's as egregious as you made out.

    My $0.05, keep up the good work on this Pretty Decent Gaming channel 😉

  10. Cyberpunk is innately charged with philosophy and politics.
    As a setting, technology is exaggerated, but exaggerating and highlighting everything wrong with humanity and politics is the premise. Politics in Cyberpunk isn't just "The Government" because they've been sidelined by the megacorporations and street gangs who control Night City with even more influence than our own political equivalents, and the classes of the tabletop include people who use the power of journalism to expose the truth or superstar musicians who can sway the masses for or against these non-government powers.

  11. Bioshock
    Witcher 3
    Plenty of games have politics in them, its how its handled and whether its pushed on the player or just part of the world.

  12. Politics in games isn’t the problem, it is people putting their own political agenda into games. Wolfe Stein is the perfect example. Shooting Nazis in the face is fun, reading a political piece on why shooting Nazis I the face in Wolfenstein is fun isn’t fun. It is political posturing for clicks and so some journo can pump out 1000 word before deadline to get paid.

  13. Almost everything is political and it always has been. Your education is political, your job is political, your money is political, what you spend your money on is political, what you don't spend your money on is political. Your games are political, your clothes are political, your freedoms are political. As they say, the personal is political…
    why do people think it’s possible to avoid making political statements?

    Politics are not only what the government does, it's everyday peoples opinions and what they do everyday. Politics dictates what you can do and say. Being able to marry the person you love is political. Hanging flags, singing anthems and honoring soldiers is political… but not hanging flags, not singing anthems and not honoring soldiers is also political. Thanks to climate change denial even hurricanes are political. The only way to pretend that something isn't political is by not having a personal stake in it, and ignoring those who do~

  14. The whole notion of whether or not a person or a thing is political has come to a war over language. A person cannot not be political, but this is something that just results from the definition of political. Politics is an extension of communication, and you cannot not communicate (Watzlawick, Beavin, and Jackson). Now, what both sides have no idea what they're warring over is whether or not something is actively political or passively political (or externally focused vs internally focused).

    Being passively political is the exercise of self-determination in order to live your life. Being actively political is the exercise of trying to change the environment around you in order to suit you. Most people are passively political, they don't want to be involved in other people's business. However, a necessity to being actively political is to get other people to buy into your way of thinking: either through persuasion or coercion. The reality of the argument between the two sides is they are arguing whether or not everyone and everything is active politically or not, but the one side is using a strawman argument saying that just because passive political practice has the word political in it, it's automatically actively political which is just wrong.

    The thing is that if you want to be able to fight these battles effectively, you have to know where the lines actually are and not be led into traps that allow people to control or change definitions.

  15. I think it's fine to have political ideas and messages in a game, just don't go bringing it up in ACTUAL politics and try to force it away from what the creator's vision meant it to be, for the sake of political correctness or whatever bullshit SJW reason these crazy people come up with. So yes, thank you PGG, for carrying the message! Let the creators create and let games be what they're meant to be, whether political or not, whether it has meaning or not, it's up to the CREATORS of the game, not us, not journalists, not politicians and not SJWs. Let us keep gaming please!

  16. Is it me or is the gaming industry turning into the drug industry give them a little of the drug and people will come back to get there fix

  17. The creators of the Simpsons had it figured out a long time ago: If you're going to do something with a touchy subject, whether political or something like gun control or such, the way that works best is to give both sides reasonable arguments and time to express those arguments, while ulitmately not taking a side as the "right" one, and thus leave the viewer to make up their own mind.

    Fact is the people pushing for politics in video games don't want both sides to have reasonable arguments. They want THEIR politics to be the heroes and everyone who disagrees to be the villains. It's about pushing their agenda, not about having an intelligent discussion.

  18. Just watch the SJWs throw a massive fit when the game launches. They won't buy the game themselves but you can be damn sure they will get offended on your behalf.

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