Hong Kong protests: Will Beijing step in? | Conflict Zone



the government has already shelled the bill that would be the end of it it would not come back why should that be endlessly for the arrested isn't that an erosion of gruvlok you said you're gonna give me time right so you let me finish this is a heated discussion give me a chance to answer my question plenty of time but you stop interrupting then I can answer weeks of mass protests in Hong Kong show no sign of coming to an end but how long will Beijing put up with it my guest this week here in the city is ronny tong a member of the hong kong government cabinet and a senior adviser to its chief executive Carrie Lam do the authorities now accept of the new extradition law which prevent the crisis should be scrapped now and for good ruddy tone welcome to conflicts on two million people on the streets of Hong Kong failures by the Hong Kong government admitted by the chief executive Carrie Lam why is she still there why hasn't she resigned well I think this is a more complex question than simply asking why does she not resign first of all I don't want to argue about a figure but a more accurate figure with more like half a million but even then it's a very very large number of people on the street and I think the government accepted that the second thing is that we must understand what the government had been trying to do a poll did by one of the more mainstream newspapers of the people would turn out in force to march on Sunday reviewed at 90 percent of the people who March thought that the extradition bill was to enable the Hong Kong government to send people back to China for trial for criticizing Beijing now they couldn't be more wrong a tradition bill yeah about extraditing people who committed a crime across the border or outside the border Hong Kong comes to Hong Kong and we need to have a legal framework to see how we nothing to do with any of the freedoms or core values of the people in Hong Kong it dies so why if that is so why should achieve excited to resign because deficiencies in the work of the government you tell me which government leader in the world have not made mistakes these are huge mistake these are huge mistake saying that you should resign bill said very clearly that it's got nothing to do with the core values of freedoms of the people of Hong Kong now the government has not done its explanation thoroughly enough true that is because of the fact that we need to deal with a particular criminal who is about to be released very soon and that basically impacted the period of consultation now that is not ideal I accept but this is not the sort of thing that you say that because it's a huge mistake therefore the chief executive ought to resign may be rewarding failure then no I'm not admitting I am guilty of and he did kind of admitted deficiencies in the work of the government I personally have to shoulder the responsibilities and the anxieties in Surrey I mean you are being unfair in her being she is basically saying that she has not done the consultation thoroughly enough that is not something that any government would take the blame and say the whole government or they did the leader or the Prime Minister whoever should resign as I say which government leader in the world have not made mistakes on me not interview of you all right I give you plenty of time you push a new extradition bill that was widely seen as an attempt to remove one of the key legal safeguards Hong Kong's way of life I know you do I know you scoffed at all objections from farley the present bill sorry the present statue I don't know where you've read it or no I probably have not because there have you read it you probably wouldn't have put the question the way you did the present law was enacted not by the SI outcomes but by the British colonial government before they hand over the amendments no talking about the statue I'm talking about the amendment no she no I'm talking about the statue you must read the statue all right to understand what is going on if you haven't even read it you don't understand it and you qualified to produce a you say let me just finish I haven't not finished yeah you said you're gonna give me time right so you let me finish right okay the statute was enacted by the British Columbia government it followed very closely the resolution of the United Nations in 1990 are you saying that the United Nations were suggesting that Hong Kong should do something which is contrary to human rights and core values and freedoms then it's of course not true now come to the amendment what the amendment did was not to change the legal framework oh it purports to do is to extend the applicability of the statue to China and the rest of the world not talk about opinion respected organizations mister time association the Hong Kong law society the more Society of England and Wales the International Bar Association's Human Rights Institute fair trials the defence extradition lawyers forum Amnesty International Human Rights Watch the Speaker of the House of Representative all of them challenge the suggestion by your chief executive that the amendments you want to make to the Hong Kong extradition laws are in accordance with international human what is it is they also now say it is if you had you're the only one who sees the truth know anyone who sees the light then it's correct yeah yeah from a rule of law point of view you would think no one let alone lawyers would object to this amendment that's what you say as I say it follows what you know to all your colleagues no nothing if you're the only one who sees the life a United Nations provided each member state to do and we are following take precise regime as the u.s. regime as the UK regime Canadian regime Australia Jim and nobody is making any comment about those countries saying that the judiciary in Hong Kong is not up to this work it's near has to do it's not my opinion the opinion of your own you've got to look at the facts Association is putting a travesty of the facts to me so the Hong Kong Bar Association is putting a travesty of they are not looking at the law they're not looking at all these is capable of doing a proper job of gatekeeping you say you say that the these any decision that is made by the chief executive is subject to confirmation by the whole you completely wrong criminal suspects can be extradited without confirmation by the Hong Kong courts can I say you know can I ask you a question yeah you got all the facts wrong what facts is if you look at the statue you know that the chief executive has no power to order extradition it's clearly spell out in the statue for one thing secondly all that the chief executive can do is to refuse extradition do you understand what review exactly that was the final decision is what refused that's the final decision he can she can he or she can only refused extradition he or she cannot order extradition the only institution which can order extradition is the courts mr. Cheongdam the yeren Bar Association points did not agree with this the magistrate can I get the question at the magistrate in Hong Kong says the Bar Association does not have the jurisdiction to inquire into the quality of justice that the future enjoy once surrender why am I going really you are only talking about the committal process yes the law has got two processes one is the committal process the other is about safeguarding and protection of human rights and fair trial which is being provided in Section five of the statue has the Society pointed out and so far as the proposals would introduce any human rights examinations at all they are vested in Hong Kong's chief executive or appear is wrong so the UK law society goes it's wrong please pick up the statue have a look before you come to me and ask me questions you're absolutely right that the judges and magistrates of Hong Kong wouldn't dream of currying favor with Beijing they leave that to people like you don't they you want to curry favor wholly unfair it is not only unfair to me but if this is really extremely unfair to the judges judges are there to carry out the law if they can't carry out the Lord they have no business being judges all right I have no power whatsoever i mediate adviser to the government I have no power because even the chief executive herself has no power conferred by the law I keep telling and I haven't said it sufficiently or enough times you have to look at the law to understand what are the facts if you don't say yes yes because their opinions matter no I don't think so the facts matter I'm sorry travesty of the facts and the UK Law Society who writes that the proposals in the extradition bill fundamentally imperiled the operation of the ruling in Hong Kong rule of law in Hong Kong they've got it wrong as well yeah I don't understand why do they think it would impair of the rule of law in Hong Kong if all that is happening he said they task of scrutinizing any request for extradition is to be considered by the judges mr. Tong well no one is available in the mainland what kind of fair trial well fair trial what the government has proposed is to ensure that they would be open trial that defensemen would be on the mainland yes open since when do they have open trials on the mainland are you are you letting me answer the question yeah but so please don't interrupt that's very very and polite all right this is a heated discussion chance to answer plenty of time well you stop interrupting then I can answer I'm telling you that the government is proposing to ensure that there will be assurances of open trial this defendant will have the choice of his own lawyer the trial has to be proceeded on the basis that it will be in the language which he understands that would be visitation rights all these the minimum guarantees of article 14 of the ICCPR do you know what ICCPR is International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights right it's a charter for human rights the government is saying that Miss China has not ratified I'm not with China I'm talking about Hong Kong because the gatekeeping is in Hong Kong a fair trial that a different terming can expect in the mainland if there is no guarantee that there would be the minimum requirements of article 14 of ICCPR it is written in the law there then the court has no business of ordering a extradition even if the court were to order an extradition the chief exciting will veto it because as I keep repeating Li telling you that the chief excited has no power to order extradition but has power to veto an order for extradition are you following they're unlikely the chief executive is unlikely to a request from China based on what fact do you say it is unlike she's an appointee of China so isn't she so so is she going to stand up to China suddenly and say this go through this on what basis do say that she would not do that based on the human rights record in China the civil and she little rights in China she I ever order in a tradition of any suspect to China has she your you tell me no you tell me I don't know you tell me there has not been a single occasion that that happened we're talking about when it does happen from doing so did you read the latest human rights reports about what happens in Germany the UK report in 2011 I'm asking about the huge majority okay 20:11 I must get the latest report commission says that it is paramount that you should respect each member states on judicial system even where those civil and political rights attention Road you know in China know the continuing detention and child of human rights I'm telling you both in the UN resolution and in the UK report in 2011 made it very clearly that protection of human rights and extradition are not mutually exclusive that is why that you've got to frame your legal regime in the way that hong kong is doing to ensure and the ke keeping is in the local judiciary not in anywhere else in the world to ensure that any suspect any defender would be entitled to fair trial and protection of human rights when the extradition is being carried out that is the way in which all extradition arrangements mr. truck is being area the well over that so no country is different mr. tone what expectation can there be of a fair trial in China when civil and political rights according to the latest British human rights and democracy report rights continue to be erode can I just read what they said the continuing detention and trials of human rights lawyers and defenders lack of due process and judicial transparency remained important concerns I don't want to sound a face okay how can you have how can you have an expectation of a fair trial for anyone that is extradited I don't want to sound offensive but how could anyone expect a fair trial to be heard in Syria Iraq we're not talking about Syria they're talking about mainland China why do you think I'll try though I'm because this is the whole point of that have been taking place in Hong Kong Hong Kong people will apply the same standard no matter who is coming to make the request be it United case the United States you know Syria Russia China we apply the same standard because this is what the law requires us to do and we will do it period what you understand the purpose of extradition you want understood what I'm saying but obviously you know you know what's what what's your guess mr. Todd instead of throwing insults at me what's your guess about where this is headed well the hardliners in Beijing try to teach Hong Kong a lesson no will they show that they're willing to learn one hour from what's being taken but the facts say that it did not come from mainland I think the chief executive is explained very clearly that he was her own initiative based on the fact that she was asked by the family of the girl who unfortunately was murdered by this Hong Kong person in Taiwan because of the whole injustice of the situation the chief excited to agree to look into it and she was asked to to establish an extradition regime which can apply to Taiwan apply to the rest of the world which includes China a China is very exercised about what's been happening here let's go did a diver if you direct challenge to one country two systems' you were right China would not have permitted the chief executive to shelf the bill I don't know that go on well as far as this administration is concerned I understand that it's not gonna come back period it's dead in the last few days so it's just tell me right if what you say were true why we're trying to do it the fact is you don't you do I don't ask me for for for for an interview would you in the rice if you know all the answers you would have come to me with the last few days tomorrow the Association has called for a credible commission of inquiry not the Police Complaints Council but a statutory independent body that can compel documents to be submitted is that going to happen is they're going to be do you want it to happen because did yes I yeah I have made clear that I I'm getting good agreement with that request but the capo sorry the IPS CCD Independent Police Complaints Council has already embarked on a full inquiry there is only one investigation subject which is the police the police has already promised that it would comply with all requests and and provide for cooperation the government has made the same promise so that inquiry would be a very sufficient inquiry but if at the end of the day come on our associations is not sufficient the only thing you know what to say it says quota by association without looking the facts I didn't say that but I don't know what facts they looked at but I'm telling you what the facts are all right now if at the end of the day the IC IPCC inquiry proved to be insufficient or inadequate then of course we can look at to see whether there are other ways to implement or to improve what is being done but enquiry is going to be carried out right so entry into what the Hong Kong government did or didn't do well that has been looked at trailed by everybody it's its own deficiencies that it's gonna change his ways to listen more and try to gauge more public opinion I didn't listen it has listened before but this particular 20 days consultation I have already explained to you why that is so have you heard one on my explanation it was because that this criminal was to be set free in September and he's going to leave Hong Kong if there is no law in place that is the reason but and the only reason why there have been insufficient consultation what the demands from the protesters already sell the bill that would be the end of it it would not come back right so it's finished it's finished it's dead and what about the demands from the protesters scrapped the bill independent inquiry that's good a scrap in independent inquiry into public ICCC amnesty if any arrested white why should that be endlessly for the arrested isn't that an erosion of rule of law you've been telling me that the rule of law cannot be eroded so you're now telling me crimes committed serious crime committed including we can try the fine of course there is a tape have you watch a TV tape there's also a presumption of in the snow have you watched a TV tape yes I have thrown bricks there if somebody has from a break you're telling me they're guilty anyone know you wait for me to answer you I mean why are you being so unfair why putting questions which are the questions my damn mister tried to ask you a question I'm asking you if there's a clip which shows somebody has thrown a brick that means somebody has committed an offense right now whether that person is right liquor arrested or not is for the court to decide so you can't say that somebody has been arrested that arrest must be wrong that is nothing to do with presumption of innocence you understand that I understand that mr toura few days ago you were warning and you're trying to evade it at the point mr. the point is that if you got somebody who'd be arrested let the Court decide whether he's guilty or not by simply asking that you should let him go without going through a due process of the law is an extreme erosion of the rule of law and you are seeing there on your high horse and you're telling me that the bill is eroding the rule of law and yet you are pulling to me at the same time that freedom giving freedom or letting the arrested go free it's not erosion of the rule of law you you won't come such double-standard you warned a few weeks a few days ago that if things got worse the Chinese army might consider taking to the streets you said when there's trouble in Hong Kong when things turn sour there's violence in our street our fear is that if the police are no able to control what is happening here there's a remote risk the Chinese army would get involved how remote is that risk if it's so why did you why did you mention it no I hope you will never happen why did you mention if risk are you trying to frighten people no it's a fact everybody understands that except you you don't understand it Hong Kong is a place where it is being operating it's operating under the one country two systems' it is a not very successfully is it calm is a huge political compromise we are part of China under the basic law china has a responsibility to ensure that Hong Kong is stable everybody who is doing business here want to see Hong Kong to be stable alright so yes under the basic law there is provision for the the Beijing government to interfere if nobody hoped that it would happen I'm trying to say that we are trying our ankles to have avoid this happening so I'm not instilling fear into people's are I'm simply reflecting what is stated in the basic law and what is the political reality of the situation you said we need we in a perfectly responsible thing to do you said we need we in Hong Kong need to gain the trust and confidence in aging so that they can allow us the freedom of political reform what about the what about Beijing's duty to earn the trust of people in Hong Kong ways they've been doing their utmost to try the opinion polls all show that people do not know the majority of people still do not identify everybody who's got to work harder you think the people of Hong Kong should play nice to their masters in Beijing and they might throw them a few crumbs the words I use is that we should communicate with each other and which instill confidence in each other that's what I'm saying UNITA stand the difference Ronny Tong it's been good to have your own conflicts oh thank you very much

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. https://youtu.be/JTHG1lRuYSU
    So what is the riot about?
    Some of protesters who admitted they were paid HK1800 per head were clearly in the dark and thought it is just a carnival. The 1600 personnel of US Consulate were also out there in full force.
    What 1600 personnel in US Consulate in Hong Kong? What do they do there?

  2. China should just open the border and let millions of Chinese flood into HK, that will solve the problem. No need for military forces or violence crack down. Let the people hand the people.

  3. All I know that the HK over seas are very strong, continues to support the youngs and save guards democratic of HK, so when the leave falling of the tree you have somewhere to come home.

  4. HK ppl gave Tong a nickname, is ‘eleven’ so do u understand? Oh u don’t understand what eleven is? U have to read all the eleven words first then you’ll understand why.

  5. It may be a clear and fair bill that spells out the rights that guarantee fair open trial meant to plug the legal loophole in Hong Kong Unfortunately it seems the Hong Kong people have lost trust in the rule of law and due process when it comes to Beijing.
    That Ronnie Tong keeps banging on about FActs as though Beijing communists respect FActs when their political security is threatened

  6. What the protest and this reporting is conveying is holding the word "FREEDOM", "HUMAN RIGHTS" etc. gives you the power to do actions without consequences. Bias reporters like these are the reason why millions or even billions around the world suffers.

  7. hey tim Sebastian/ DW News. the question asked is similar to asking whether a person need air to survive or food to live. What Tong is saying is, you need to learn how to breath or eat properly to live well. Whats the difference? when you are just using the title of "freedom", "peacefulness", "human rights", of course you are MORE than 300% correct. HOWEVER, its the CONTEXT that really matters! Their actions are NOTHING related to the "titles" tim sebastian is using. Show some professionalism instead of having an old reporter talking like a kid.

  8. Mr minister, u r wasting your time to talk to this street fighter. He cannot under what u talk about. The late Lee Kuan hammered him out nicely. This guy is a sore loser. Could not take it when Hongkong was handed back to China.

  9. I was once on a flight. There was a white guy arguing something with the flight attendant. Few seconds later another guy walked up and just slapped his rear head, uttering "german!". Now I know why he did that after seeing this video. Tong should do the same to this german clown.

  10. One country two systems.

    One country two systems does not mean, one system in Hong Kong should be able to use by outsiders to antagonize, subvert and instigate to one system in China. The two system should co-existing together and work for the betterment of all Chinese people.

    This is exactly the outside people try to antagonize China affair. Hong Kong is China and when the colonial time did Hong Kong people have a right to speak up like the way Tim has been acting all along this interview.

  11. what the interviewer do? He is so aggressive. he just want to judge something like god? Is he a professional interviewer? west media just a joke. A joke

  12. Carrie Lam and this Chinese butt licker should both get fired. The British has done many great things to Hong Kong while governing the city, Hong Kong should be independent from China once for all.

  13. Bingo! What is China doing to earn the trust of people in Hong Kong? Article 45 an “ultimate aim” of universal suffrage in Hong Kong. ~has this law been met? 2 million people demand this to be exercised. NOW. Do it NOW. Carrie Lam step down NOW. It’s the law.

  14. I think the major concern of Hong Kong people about the extradition bill is that it allows the government to extradite Hongkong people for trial in mainland China. Given the fact that the homicidal criminal is about to be released soon, why not just initiate the extradition treaty only with Taiwan where this case happened and which shares closer justice practices and is the “ultimate” reason claimed by the interviewee why they initiated this amendment.

  15. This interview was carried out like a interrogation, the reporter didn't plan to have an actual discussion on the issues and looking for the facts but an "planned answer" that he wants to hear instead. Prejudgments, discrimination, and even interviewer's personal bias lacked out during the interview, so unprofessional, bias, and disrespectful on the 'DW News' side, the interviewee Ronny Tong was polite enough by not left during half-way.

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